tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post2539187627776055060..comments2023-05-13T09:44:09.456-04:00Comments on Adiaphora - a prologue to things indifferent.: Enthroning the Bible at HomeChris Larimerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-10016667828308268162009-09-05T21:47:18.276-04:002009-09-05T21:47:18.276-04:00If I had my druthers, I'd be CoI. They still r...If I had my druthers, I'd be CoI. They still require rather strict adherence to the 39 Articles and the Irish Articles set the tone for the rest of their churchmanship. But I still have parents alive in the States, so no expatriation in my near future.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-79045081286413233772009-09-05T20:59:05.918-04:002009-09-05T20:59:05.918-04:00Just as an historical clarification: the WCF techn...Just as an historical clarification: the WCF technically did not built on the 39 Articles. True enough, the Westminster Assembly was originally given the task of revising the Articles (and did so to 16 of them), but Parliament then aligned itself with Scotland under the Solemn League and Covenant, that task was set aside and never picked up again. Scotland sent delegates to the Assembly, and from that point on the goal of the Assembly was to bring the Church of England more into uniformity with the Church of Scotland in four areas: Confession, Church Government, Worship, and Catechizing. In the words of Warfield, "the work of the Assembly ... was revolutionized, and not only directed to a new end but put upon a wholly new basis." The Assembly apparently did, however, make use of the Irish Articles in composing the WCF, if memory serves.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178490570661476205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-962760329310374172009-09-05T09:31:19.687-04:002009-09-05T09:31:19.687-04:00Kevin: Trent was a council, not a pope. I stand fi...Kevin: Trent was a council, not a pope. I stand firmly for conciliarism - but, with the 39 Articles (and the WCF that built on them), I affirm that synods can and have erred; few more than Trent (though it did correct some eggregious errors).<br /><br />Bill: Solid thoughts. We are <i>homo religiosis</i> - with idol factories for hearts. What is a sign and symbol and means of God's salvation can easily be turned into an idol (cf. 2 Kings 18:1-4). The Scriptures alone have the ability to self-correct on that.<br /><br />GREAT DISCUSSION, brothers.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-55614101667584315322009-09-05T09:03:47.818-04:002009-09-05T09:03:47.818-04:00The whole problem with ritual is not (always) what...The whole problem with ritual is not (always) what it intends but what it (usually) causes.<br /><br />Bibleology is just a step away from what you are describing. The flowers, the special stand leads one to subconsciously understand that the object is special. <br /><br />Then not very long in the future, the simple special placement of the book is sufficient to "venerate" the Word. <br /><br />I would much rather see a bible, heavily used, on the bedside of each room and those folks gathering to talk about what they have read. <br /><br />The idea of setting the book apart from the regular noise of the family seems exactly the opposite of what we want to happen. <br /><br />the confusion occurs when you have someone lift up the bible and the leader leads the ritual to pray to Jesus? who are you praying to Jesus or the Bible that is being lifted up before all to see.Bill Crawfordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05748091341766506913noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-30089890248310615362009-09-04T15:03:57.287-04:002009-09-04T15:03:57.287-04:00It is a wonderful reminder of papal fallability. 4...It is a wonderful reminder of papal fallability. 400 odd years ago, Trent pronounced anathemas on anyone who would dare own a Bible.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02670804686736764846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-80158534439092029212009-09-03T23:24:10.243-04:002009-09-03T23:24:10.243-04:00LOST - both the means and the ends, eh?
If more p...LOST - both the means and the ends, eh?<br /><br />If more people would just pursue the Benedictine-inspired pattern of Morning and Evening Prayer in the BCP then there'd be a lot more thorough and even reading of the Scriptures.<br /><br />But no...some dissenting types thought that greater fidelity was to be had in absolute freedom. :)Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-36857758654386919712009-09-03T23:08:49.525-04:002009-09-03T23:08:49.525-04:00I am fairly certain if Joel Osteen were forced to ...I am fairly certain if Joel Osteen were forced to learn English he'd never make it. <br /><br /><br />I'd have to ditto with my ARP fellow here on this one. There a plethora of Reformed guys you could check on this (cf: Joel Beeke up in Grand Rapids for sure) that I think are exceedingly more helpful than the guys following the Bishop over in Italy. <br /><br />Two things dealt the blow to family religion in America. One was the diminished part of the Christian Sabbath and the eradication of Family Worship. <br /><br />By the way I am all for putting a Bible in a prominent place in your home. Just make sure it does not become something that has more dust on it than the top of your TV.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-32658113115817306692009-09-03T23:07:14.909-04:002009-09-03T23:07:14.909-04:00Two things bother me about the whole "altar c...Two things bother me about the whole "altar call" thing:<br /><br />1) When the communion table is referred to as an "altar," which it is not (worse still is when it is made to look like an altar).<br /><br />2) When the "altar call," like "baby dedications," becomes a substitution for a biblical sacrament. The Lord's Supper appropriately leads to things like rededication, covenant renewal, and transformation. And our Lord, of course, did not institute such a thing, unknown in the church for 18 centuries.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178490570661476205noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-82701909485213019732009-09-03T22:54:19.875-04:002009-09-03T22:54:19.875-04:00I was always uncomfortable with Paul's exhorta...I was always uncomfortable with Paul's exhortation to offer ourselves as living sacrifices... But as I've come into a less polemical expression of the Reformation, I get less upset by people using a word with historic precedent. Altar calls aren't to sacrifice Jesus, but to sacrifice self. That's a profoundly Christian thing to do - and when motivated from true repentance, leads to amazing transformation.<br /><br />Seasonal cloths are an innovation I like, so long as the symbolism is explained and taught. They can become an extremely useful tool in remembering Christ's life.<br /><br />As for Romanists, many have a family shrine where they keep superstitious stuff. But simply because it's been abused doesn't mean it shouldn't be reformed. And I'll remind you that there have been English Bibles for Roman Catholics for the better part of two centuries. But it does say something that - like Muslims with Arabic - one was required to undergo formal training in the language before being able to read it willy-nilly. <br /><br />Witness Joel Osteen...he'd never make it if he were required to learn Latin.Chris Larimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01770607122746467750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30216641.post-41031441315543930892009-09-03T21:55:32.944-04:002009-09-03T21:55:32.944-04:00Respectfully, as a Reformed pastor, I have great d...Respectfully, as a Reformed pastor, I have great dislike for the use of the term "altar," as it brings forth connotations of sacrifice of animals, and Christ is our paschal lamb. Fear not, for have equal distaste for Protestants who make reference to "altar calls" and the like, for similar reasons.<br /><br />I also not not care for the use of seasonal cloths and so forth, but having a Bible on the coffee table (I am an American after all ;) ) and having the family gather around the kitchen table for "family worship" is certainly encouraged.<br /><br />I am somewhat confused, however, at the idea of a family altar being well established in Roman Catholic circles. How are we defining this? An emphasis on catechesis? Feel free to correct, but was not the reading of the Bible actually <i>discouraged</i> (or forbidden) by the laity prior to Vatican II? When did it become permissible by RCs to translate the Bible into the vernacular? It would seem unlikely that Bible readings were a part of such tradition before the last half century or so, unless I am missing something.Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178490570661476205noreply@blogger.com