Wednesday, July 30, 2008

Does Iran want to bomb the US?

Well, Newsmax is running a story citing the testimony a PhD electrical engineer, William Graham of the Claremont Institute, gave before Congress.

[sarcasm]
I'm sure it's all just that FauxNews crap and right-wing neocon tripe because I only believe the credible people at Huffinpuff Post and Altermedia. After all, this report is being opposed by all the right people. Let's see, the genteel peace-loving souls at StormFront forum have something to say, as does the good doctor and LA state legislator David Duke. And the fact that it's a propaganda piece supported by the Elders of Zion just proves that it's meant to urge Amerikkka into starting WWIII (especially if McCain - WIII himself - gets elected). Remember, Iran is the good guy.
[/sarcasm]

Hey...at least if they hit us with one of those EMPs, we can go back to a non-greenhouse gas economy!

14 comments:

Paul Schmidt said...

The little I know about Islam from ATRI helps me understand the WTC attack. The WTC attack was against innocent civilians, not a military target. This is because the Islamic faith sees ALL those on the outside of the faith as being at war with them.

Paul Schmidt
Johnson City, TN

Jodie said...

There is nothing new in this article except to set up the one paragraph that claims if Obama becomes president we are all going to die.

More Swiftboat tactics...

EMP weapons have been around for decades. China's got them, Russia's got them, India's got them, so do England and France and probably Israel as well.

Be afraid folks, be very afraid. We are all going to die horrible slow deaths. Armageddon is just around the corner.

Our only salvation will be if McCain becomes president and nukes Iran first.

Chris said...

Jodie,

Many countries have had Nuclear and EMP weapons, but they've been afraid to use them because of MAD. They wanted their people to prosper, their economies to flourish, and their enemies to diminish. But the Islamic world mocks us for wanting those things more than martyrdom. As Khomeini constantly preached, they love death more than we love life.

China, Russia, India, England, France, et al. don't go to the UN talking about how they want to wipe another nation OFF THE MAP. They also aren't run by eschatomaniacal fundamentalists.

There is a difference. However, with the rest of the Democratic Party, you seem to be stuck on September 10, 2001.

Jodie said...

Chris,

Here is where the rubber meets the road. What did you think trusting in your Lord and Savior really meant?

Does Jesus sleep at the back of the boat and not care if we perish?

We've >>always<< lived in a post 9/11 world.

Chris said...

Ever-mindful Jodie,

Wouldst thou condescend to tell us, thy miserable inferiors, when the Scriptures applieth to matters of state ("turn the other cheek") and when they do not ("But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you")?

Jodie said...

Chris,

I am honestly not sure what you are trying to say. You launched into this style of speech in the last posting too. It looks like some kind of non sequitur imitation of sarcasm and King James, but the message is lost on me. If it is English, I must confess at this time that English is really my second language, so maybe you can feel sorry for me and translate?

By the way, I wasn't asking a rhetorical question. Do you really feel as if Jesus is asleep in the back of the boat, and that he is about to let us all perish? It seems like you do, but I am not sure. How you feel about this really can affect your political positions, so it kinda matters.

Chris said...

O ponderous one,

If mine speech hath become exalted, it is only the loftiness of him whom I address that doth make it so.

Having read the end of yon tome, I believeth that Jesus himself shall bring to an end this terrestrial ball.

Having read the epistles of Paul, most especially Romans 13, I believeth that those wicked who wish to destroy other nations art most verily to be punished of them that ruleth over the nations.

Again, I prithee, do enlighten us all as to what teachings of the New Testament applieth to the United States government and which do not. And wouldst thou deign to expandeth upon the principle of non-theocratic governance which hast lauded elsewhere?

Jodie said...

Its about forcing your will on others.

Whether you are forcing religious dogma on school children on false pretenses that it is science, or whether you are forcing your will on foreign nations whose leaders you don't like, false pretenses or not, or whether you are nuking your neighbors out of fear that they might nuke you, it's not justice, it's not mercy, it's not humility, and it's not following the more perfect way. A democracy allows you, and gives you the responsibility, to express your faith in the secular public arena without using force.

Whatever you do, it is an expression of your faith.

My argument is with the faith you are expressing. Faith in Mars instead of Faith in Jesus. Faith in a culture of violence instead of the gospel of Peace.

You know the scriptures. You know what I am talking about. This is why you close your ears and eyes and appeal to sarcasm and contempt. It's exactly what Zechariah was talking about (Zech 7:9-12).

It was the central problem of religion at the time of Zechariah and Isaiah, the central problem at the time of Jesus and Paul, and it is the central problem of our religion today. It seems to be yours as well.

Chris said...

Jodie,

I speak to you in vaunted English because you've set yourself up as arbiter of Christlikeness for everyone. If it makes you uncomfortable, then please re-evaluate your overestimation of your place in Christendom.

As for war, I tend to side with the Christian Realists. Government has a Divine mandate to provide order in human society and to enforce that order by the exercise of power. Life in a sinful world is not as simple as a choice between good and evil. More often, it is a choice between varying degrees of evil.

Niebuhr said: "The new world must be built by resolute men who ‘when hope is dead will hope by faith’; who will neither seek premature escape from the guilt of history, nor yet call the evil, which taints all their achievements, good." The Nature and Destiny of Man, 2:285-286

I refuse to call our efforts to stem world-wide nuclear terrorism an absolute good. But I also refuse to ignore that they are infinitely better than letting rogue nations gain nuclear dominance over any part of the world.

The US government has something that Rome and Alexander's Greece and Bonaparte's France envy: the military power and economic infrastructure to control the planet.

And yet we do not.

We loom large because we're the biggest player on the field. But we refuse to dominate foreign nations, preferring to maintain an international peace that allows diplomacy, trade, and humanitarian efforts to succeed in transforming the planet for freedom and dignity.

I think that's better than allowing the world to devolve into barbarism. I think that approach has the best chance of actually making lasting peace.

Jodie said...

Chris,

Now you speak plainly. It doesn't feel so good to put the shoe on the other foot, or to be on the receiving side of self-righteous bible thumping, does it?

But I am only reacting to your blog. Maybe when you stand in judgment of your Christian brothers for whatever it is you are sure they are wrong about, you will remember what it's like and find a more perfect way.

It is a shame Paul's only understanding of government came from the Roman empire. But if you choose to read the meta rules of the Kingdom of God that he promoted, perhaps you too can discern the implication to citizenship under a democracy. The alternative is to wait for us to revert into another Roman Empire.

Not a good trade. I do hope it never comes to that.

I think you need to get out of the US a bit. Your view of the place of America in the world is very skewed. It is a common perception shared by folks who have never stepped outside our borders in any significant way. I don't know what else to say except that I strongly urge you to find a way to live abroad for a few years.

But to say that we refuse to dominate foreign nations is laughable even to folks who have never set foot outside our borders. I mean, was the invasion of Iraq just a Sunday picnic? Seriously, what makes you say such a thing?

America has been fighting a winner-take-all war for global domination for well over a century now. And you and your lifestyle are direct beneficiaries of this battle. We've not done badly, but we've seriously pissed off some people, and pissing them off even more is not in our own best interest. We need to establish some self imposed limits and we haven't. We didn't used to invade other countries on trumped up excuses and we didn't used to talk openly of preemptive nuclear war. We have a problem. Power corrupts and total power corrupts totally. America is wandering far and wide of its founding values.

But all I am asking you to do is to listen to the culture of the Kingdom of God and trust our Lord that we do not need to buy into the rules of the World, even if we live in it, and even if it can kill us. The secret to the Gospel is that we actually have a choice. Even under Roman occupation. And Christians made that choice when the consequences to them were much worse than the consequences to you.

This is your blog. How do >>you<< want to set yourself up?

Chris said...

Sure Jodie. I'm naive. Never stepped foot out of the country. My views can only be because of ignorance. Actually, coming from a liberal, I think I got off easy. We're normally accused of actually wanting to hurt and use people. Hey...you even said Paul was naive. I must be in pretty good company. What about the Holy Spirit that inspired that idea (in multiple places, I might add)? Is he naive, too? Maybe he just needs to get around and take some lessons from you, eh?

I've never set myself up as a judge of someone's Christlikeness or Christian character. (Or at least I never intend to do so.) However, those who are officially entrusted with the teaching office of the church are held to a higher standard - and that standard is expressed in their doctrine as well as their life. Most people I know on the internet don't talk about what they do, so their doctrinal teaching is all that's available.

If you want to talk about world dominance, we were set to do it in 1945. Nobody else had the most devastating weapon on the planet. But we didn't use it. We have plenty of self-imposed limits. Just ask Germany and Japan. While I'm uncomfortable with the idea of pre-emptive strikes of any sort, a nuclear Iran threatens the world far more than a swaggering America.

Again, the American government isn't charged with living up to Christian ideals. It isn't charged with setting up the kingdom of God. Its job is to protect its people. The fact that there hasn't been a single terrorist attack on US soil since 9/11/01 is testimony to the fact that the gov't is fulfilling its responsibility. The rest of it is just icing.

Rachel Baker said...

Chris I feel for you man...you have real bought into the war propaganda machine. But I am thankful for your blog and I believe that Jodie speaks some words of wisdom, especially when she says, "Power corrupts and total power corrupts totally." This is the only explnation I have for the atrocities caused by Corporate America and the"Military Industrial Complex" .

Rachel Baker said...

"Its job is to protect its people. " Exactly, then why our we policing the WORLD??? "This much is true, you have been lied to." -Ron Paul, 'The Revolution: A Manifesto'

Chris said...

Rachel,

Can you tell me what those miserable archfiends and enemies of the Constitution, Jefferson and Madison, were doing all the way over in Africa back in early 19th century?

If you can, you might begin to understand what the Constitution requires of its President.