Whither infallibility

There must be a real heartfelt belief that God’s promises are sure and to be depended on – a real belief that what God says in the Bible is all true and that every doctrine contrary to this is false, whatever anyone may say. There must be a real belief that all God’s words are to be received, however hard and disagreeable to flesh and blood, and that His way is right and all others wrong. This there must be, or you will never come out from the world, take up the cross, follow Christ and be saved.

~ J.C. Ryle

Holiness: Its Nature, Hindrances, Difficulties, and Roots, “Moses: An Example”, [Moscow, ID: Charles Nolan Publishing, 2001], 173.

Getting Ryled Up

Let us carefully hold fast the great doctrine of the plenary inspiration of every word of the Bible. Let us never allow that any writer of the Old or New Testament could make even the slightest verbal mistake or error, when, writing as he was “moved by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Peter 1:21.) Let it be a settled principle with us in reading the Bible, that when we cannot understand a passage, or reconcile it with some other passage, the fault is not in the Book, but in ourselves. The adoption of this principle will place our feet upon a rock. To give it up is to stand upon a quicksand, and to fill our minds with endless uncertainties and doubts.

~ J.C. Ryle

Expository Thoughts on the Gospels: Luke volume 1, [Carlisle, PA: Banner of Truth, 1986], 4.

HOWL-O-WEEN

Editor's Note: CBN - in a surprising display of good taste - has already taken the article down. (Either that, or the witches were able to knock it off the server through their orange & black magical debil-candy.) Nevertheless, you can still find the "article" posted at CharismaMag's blog - whence it originally came.

Kimberly Daniels, a guest writer for CBN Online, has written an article supposedly exposing the forces of evil and their use of the secularized All-Hallow's E'en celebration (Halloween). Unfortunately, the only not-so-hidden truth the article exposed was that this woman desperately needs to go to seminary before she ever speaks as a public Christian leader again. I don't mean to be mean, but she starts with error, and goes downhill from there.

First, she seems to think there's an unholy godhead - consisting of a perverse trinity:

Lucifer is a part of the demonic godhead. Remember, everything God has, the devil has a counterfeit. Halloween is a counterfeit holy day that is dedicated to celebrating the demonic trinity of : the Luciferian Spirit (the false father); the Antichrist Spirit (the false holy spirit); and the Spirit of Belial (the false son).

Didja get that? Yeah...me neither. The Trinity is oneness of being in three self-submitting persons. That's absolutely antithetical to the "me-first"-ness of the fallen one. I don't think Ms. Daniels knows what she's talking about - either on the trinity or on demonology.

She doesn't know candy-making any better:

During this period demons are assigned against those who participate in the rituals and festivities. These demons are automatically drawn to the fetishes that open doors for them to come into the lives of human beings. For example, most of the candy sold during this season has been dedicated and prayed over by witches.

I do not buy candy during the Halloween season. Curses are sent through the tricks and treats of the innocent whether they get it by going door to door or by purchasing it from the local grocery store. The demons cannot tell the difference.

Seriously? I mean...as a homeschooler, I've been to candy-making plants. A friend of mine grew up in the Presbyterian church that the owner of Spangler Candy (maker of Dum-Dum Pops) attended. I've seen plenty of ovens, but nary a coven in those places.

Even more ironic, these are the same folks that would tell the Roman Catholic Church that it's superstitious for believing in sacraments that work ex opere (even though they have the promise of Christ behind them). Nevertheless, you bring out the devil and all of a sudden he's got power over all of nature that God Almighty doesn't have? He's allowed to work wickedness through material things, but Jesus isn't allowed to work good?

Confused much?

Even the colors of Halloween (orange, brown and dark red) are dedicated. These colors are connected to the fall equinox, which is around the 20th or 21st of September each year and is sometimes called "Mabon." During this season witches are celebrating the changing of the seasons from summer to fall. They give praise to the gods for the demonic harvest.

Wait a sec. Thanksgiving is off limits too, now. What church does this lady belong to? Jehovah's Witnesses?

Oh...it's worse. She claims to be an apostle.

The gods of harvest that the witches worship during their fall festivals are the Corn King and the Harvest Lord.

Um...I think anyone who would publish this tripe deserves to be crowned Corn King.

Halloween is much more than a holiday filled with fun and tricks or treats. It is a time for the gathering of evil that masquerades behind the fictitious characters of Dracula, werewolves, mummies and witches on brooms. The truth is that these demons that have been presented as scary cartoons actually exist.

Okay...this takes the cake. I remember when I was a little kid being absolutely FASCINATED with monster books & movies. I fancied that one day I might grow up to be a special-effects makeup artist. Some senior church members thought my "obsession" was a gateway for the evil one to take control of me. (As if he needed something like that when there was plenty of lust, greed, pride, etc. to go around.) Anyway, they said I shouldn't be fixated on that kind of thing or the devil would take control of me.

Here's the problem - even as a seven year old, I knew all that stuff was FAKE. (Not the devil - he's a real being, but vampires and werewolves and zombies, etc.) I could get up from these eeeeVIL things and go on about my life. They would vanish into the idleness of childhood imagination and historical mythopoesis.

But for duh-postle Kim, they're still real.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

There is no doubt in my heart that God is not calling us to replace fall festivals and Halloween activities; rather, He wants us to utterly destroy the deeds of this season. If you or your family members have opened the door to any curses that are released during the demonic fall festivals, renounce them and repent.

Alright...let's get something straight. The harvest is God's. It is His open-handed blessing to all creatures, and a reminder of the Noahic covenant. And it's so foundational a picture of God's goodness that he instituted THREE FESTIVALS associated with it:

• a seven-day springtime festival of Unleavened Bread, around the barley harvest (Passover/Unleavened Bread/Pesach/Mazzot);
  
• an early summer festival of Harvest, when the wheat ripens (Pentecost/Weeks/Shavuot);
  
• an autumn festival of Ingathering, when olives, grapes, and other fruits are harvested (Booths/Tabernacles/Sukkot).

Remember, this is God's inspired Word we're talking about. And He told His people to hold these festivals during times when the pagan Canaanites around them would be having similar harvest festivals. He even talks about the ingathering of humans to the Kingdom as a harvest.

I don't think this woman knows what she's talking about. She needs to re-read 1 Corinthians 8. Verses 1-6 tell us that there's no reality behind false idols, so that she'll realize these haints and boogers and witches she's conjuring up are just that - idols of her own overactive imagination. Secondly, she needs to repent for laying false burdens on Christians (vv. 7 et seq.).

There is a false Gospel out there that says that kingdom-living is a bunch of do's and do-not's. RUBBISH! While God demands holiness, that has already been met in the righteousness of Christ. We are free to transform cultural relics and natural life cycles into reminders of God's goodness and providence. The whole hoopla over Halloween as a pagan festival, rather than a time of remembering the faithful departed, became popular in the supernaturalism / medievalism of the late Victorian era (little of which was based in fact).

G. K. Chesterton said "Idolatry is committed, not merely by setting up false gods, but by setting up false devils; by making men afraid of war or alcohol or economic law, when they should be afraid of spiritual corruption and cowardice."

The fact of the matter is that morally lazy Christians love to get worked up over nothings so they can ignore the real travesties of our day. The "War on Christmas" is just such a turn. If Halloween has "gone bad," Christians are to blame. We forgot to take time to honor the saints (living and dead), and embrace God's covenant faithfulness. If we did that, we might remember that the devil doesn't need witches, haints, and boogers to corrupt us. A nice TV and comfortable position at our job and a gliding indifference towards others is plenty to lead us to the gates of Hell.

When I was training as a medico, there was an old saying: "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses - not zebras." One of the dangers of studying medicine is that you learn a fearful host of pathological conditions, and are eager to show off your knowledge by finding the most obscure diagnosis. (Think of the popularity of the medical drama, House.)

The same is true in the cure of souls. When someone is having trouble in their marriage, or their children are being rebellious, don't think "A-ha! Dad must be a Mason under Satanic oppression!" Instead, look for the regular old enemies: the world and the flesh.

So instead of exorcising candy...let's enjoy some, then go exercise.

NSF Scientists find links between solar activity and climate change

Looks like somebody didn't get the memo.

From NCAR:

An international team of scientists led by the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) used more than a century of weather observations and three powerful computer models to tackle one of the more difficult questions in meteorology: if the total energy that reaches Earth from the Sun varies by only 0.1 percent across the approximately 11-year solar cycle, how can such a small variation drive major changes in weather patterns on Earth?

The answer, according to the new study, has to do with the Sun's impact on two seemingly unrelated regions. Chemicals in the stratosphere and sea surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean respond during solar maximum in a way that amplifies the Sun's influence on some aspects of air movement. This can intensify winds and rainfall, change sea surface temperatures and cloud cover over certain tropical and subtropical regions, and ultimately influence global weather.

"The Sun, the stratosphere, and the oceans are connected in ways that can influence events such as winter rainfall in North America," says NCAR scientist Gerald Meehl, the lead author. "Understanding the role of the solar cycle can provide added insight as scientists work toward predicting regional weather patterns for the next couple of decades."

Source 1 & 2

What? you mean my van isn't causing global warming, but instead it's that ginormous thermonuclear furnace near our planet? Preposterous.

Now how am I supposed to salve my conscience - especially since Obama's energy* is going into health-care instead of Waxman's wealthcare cap-n-trade?

Whew...that's better. So would this be vehicular confession?

How gallant.

h/t SacredSandwhich

C. F. Moule on the Resurrection

Previously unpublished lecture by C. F. D. Moule on the resurrection as the controlling event of early Christian experience.

Give it a read.

Why Christ's Physical Resurrection Matters

The Apostle Paul said: "16 if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19 If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied." (1 Cor. 15) While many modern so-called churches have forgotten this timeless truth, it still speaks today.

I offer this poem by John Updike as an Easter meditation.

Make no mistake: if He rose at all
it was as His body;
if the cells' dissolution did not reverse, the molecules
reknit, the amino acids rekindle,
the Church will fall.

It was not as the flowers,
each soft Spring recurrent;
it was not as His Spirit in the mouths and fuddled
eyes of the eleven apostles;
it was as His Flesh: ours.

The same hinged thumbs and toes,
the same valved heart
that — pierced — died, withered, paused, and then
regathered out of enduring Might
new strength to enclose.

Let us not mock God with metaphor,
analogy, sidestepping transcendence;
making of the event a parable, a sign painted in the
faded credulity of earlier ages:
let us walk through the door.

The stone is rolled back, not papier - mache,
not a stone in a story,
but the vast rock of materiality that in the slow
grinding of time will eclipse for each of us
the wide light of day.

And if we will have an angel at the tomb,
make it a real angel,
weighty with Max Planck's quanta, vivid with hair,
opaque in the dawn light, robed in real linen
spun on a definite loom.

Let us not seek to make it less monstrous,
for our own convenience, our own sense of beauty,
lest, awakened in one unthinkable hour, we are
embarrassed by the miracle,
and crushed by remonstrance.

— From Telephone Poles and Other Poems by John Updike
© 1961 by John Updike

John Updike's take is that if all there is is all we can control, we are dead to truth and beauty, and most to be pitied. This Easter, my prayer for you is a deep encounter with the truth of the Risen Christ - a true human (like you and me) and also true God. As his body has been raised into glorified perfection, so shall ours be. And as his body is one, may he also make his church - his body on earth - to be one. Amen.

Myopia

Does your church make long-term mistakes in doctrine & practice for short-term payoff?


Don't expect them to be around much longer. Especially when they call killing off the next generation 'a blessing'!!!

Evangelicals and the Housing Bubble

The NY Times recently hosted an analysis that “found that during the last two housing booms in the United States, regions with high concentrations of evangelicals saw lower gains in home prices and less volatility than similar regions with fewer evangelical residents.”

They've taken into account that rural areas are likely to have more evangelicals. And the as-yet-unproven assertion that evangelicals are lower-educated and less-payed than non-evangelicals - the results weathered both challenges admirably. The bottom line is found in this observation: “unchecked greed and speculative frenzy are seen as undesirable in the evangelical community.”

The next time some incredulous soul says that it doesn't matter what you believe, or that theology is just a head-game with no real-world implications, point to this and take heart. When the American empire crumbles, the City of God will go on.

Salt & light, people. Go be it.

Remembering John Donne

“The Scriptures are God's Voice, The Church is His echo.”

John Donne 17th C, commemorated this past Tuesday.

Almighty God, the root and fountain of all being: Open our eyes to see, with your servant John Donne, that whatever has any being is a mirror in which we may behold you; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.

Fundamental to serving God in the Church is an acceptance of the authority of Holy Scripture. Perhaps the choice of the opening word “fundamental” seems ill advised, but I am not talking about biblical literalism - which is opposed to the Reformational hermeneutic of grammatico-historical analysis - but about the fundamentals of our faith. Without a firm foundation on God’s self-revelation in Holy Scripture; in God’s word, and in the Word made flesh, Christ Jesus Himself, there are no fundamentals and no place to stand. The two are linked together in my mind, because they are linked together in the mind of Jesus who came “not to abolish the Law or the Prophets; …but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17).

Neither am I talking about simplistic proof texting, yet the texts are indeed important. There is such a thing as biblical theology, and both Jesus and Paul, and the other New Testament writers model that for us in their treatment of the Old Testament. From a classic Anglican position we also go back to the biblical theology of the Early Church Fathers. The Lord warns us in Isaiah that if we are not firm in our faith, we will not be firm at all (Isaiah 7:9b). There is no firm foothold, no possibility of establishing “fundamentals” if you take your stand on the quick sand of the world and human philosophy.

The fundamentals of the faith are first of all reflected in Holy Scripture itself, and then secondarily, in the writings of the Fathers. There is no argument there over what the fundamentals are. True, much of the writing of the Fathers was a defense of the faith against heretical opinions that were springing up everywhere. That is the point. There is a difference between what is theologically true, and what is a lie. The lie was always characterized as heresy, or apostasy. You either believe Holy Scripture, or you don’t. There is no valid half-way point.

You either believe the creeds, or you don’t. You can''s say you affirm them as true, only in so far as you can modify their plain (and historic) sense. You either believe...or you do not.

You either believe and respond to God’s call to personal holiness, or you don’t. Thus says the Lord, “You shall be holy, for I am holy” (1 Peter 1:16). If you don’t understand holiness as Scripture and the Fathers understand holiness, you don’t understand holiness at all. There is no real question in the Church today regarding what Scripture, the Fathers, or the Church catholic has always taught, and teaches still, about the fundamentals, or about sexual morality. Morality is after all an essential part of our walk before the Living God.

The question before mainline churches today is simply this: The text says what it says; no-one is really disagreeing, there are no varying interpretations, no one is really disagreeing over what Holy Scripture actually says. The disagreement is over whether or not the texts, Holy Scripture itself, and the ongoing teaching of the Church, are relevant at all. From the viewpoint of the tradition of the Church we believe what has been believed everywhere, always, and by all (The Vincentian Canon - more about that in 3 weeks). What is being said in some quarters today is that those fundamentals, and those moral teaching are no longer relevant in modern society.

Over the last several years bishops and high-placed leaders in the Church have disavowed specific fundamentals. They tell us that the physical resurrection did not happen, that Christ did not die for our sins, and that he is no longer the way, the truth and the life and that it is not true that no man comes to the Father except through him (John 14:6). According to them, it doesn’t matter what Jesus said in John 14:6, because he probably didn’t say it anyway.

Unfortunately there is no common ground between our small group revisionists and the Church catholic. For them, there is nothing that can be discussed on the basis of Holy Scripture. They tell us that the moral teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, the teachings of Paul and Peter on holiness, and the teachings of the Law and the Prophets on these issues, are no longer relevant in modern society. They reject the teaching of both Scripture and the Church and take their stand on sinking sand, on an antique humanism that is already going out of fashion in this post-modern age.

You either build your house on the Rock, or you build your house on the sand. They prefer the sand, probably because in their mind it is closer to the water. “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are the peoples and multitudes and nations and languages” (Revelation 17:15). I should probably apologize for the use of that text because certainly in the minds of some The Book of Revelation is almost the very last place we ought to look for a word from God.

The truly relevant question is not what they believe, or don’t believe. The truly relevant question is: What do you believe? Do you stand on solid ground, or do you stand on sinking sand? These questions are not a matter of airy-fairy theological debate. They are in fact questions about life and death. A seminary professor of mine taught that miracles didn’t happen, that the physical resurrection of Christ did not happen. So what!?

The so what happens when their students go to a parish and undermine faith in the resurrection, and in so doing destroy the faith of a woman who was dying of cancer.

The so what happens when we hear teaching on “Situation Ethics” - that it doesn’t matter what you do as long as you do it lovingly - and see it lived out. Clergy begin to say that premarital sex is perfectly O.K. (which happened in the 1960s). That attitude was a contributing factor to the free-love movement of the late sixties and early seventies and has laid countless young people in America vulnerable to a variety of venereal diseases, including HIV/AIDS - not to mention the broken hearts, shattered lives, and destroyed families left in the path! Paul calls sex before marriage, “fornication.” Why? There are after all several very valid reasons.

As Christians we believe that “The Scriptures are God’s Voice, The Church is His echo.” We believe it, in part for some very practical reasons. The teachings of Scripture guide us on our journey preserving our mental and physical health, preserving the integrity of our families, and leading us to the Door to Eternal Life, Christ Himself, The Living Word. Jesus Himself was well aware of the antipathy people had towards His teaching and asked “Do you take offense at this? … The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe” (John 6:61-64). The direct result was that many of his disciples turned away and no longer walked with Him. The question is: Will you walk with Him? Peter’s response was this, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life” (John 6:68).

Who ya gonna call (upon)?

Okay...I can be sacrilegious sometimes. And when I saw this, I snickered pretty hard.

Then I started theologizing and realized that there was a deeper point to be grasped. They got the wrong person of the Trinity.

For you non pop-culture mavens, the guys at the bottom are the Ghostbusters.

Does your church equivocate on the Trinity? Is worship offered to the Father, in the name of the Son, in the power of the Holy Spirit? Or do they take modalist language like "Creator, Redeemer, Sustainer"? Is it worth losing the covenant-keeping God revealed in the Scriptures and Christ Jesus for the non-gendered bland deity of "God"* or "Holy One"*?

*(Biblical names, no doubt - but reflective of a paucity of uses of Scripturally shaped - and even mandated, in the Baptismal Formula from Christ & the Apostles - language used in the Bible.)

Judgmental Much?

Jan thought about warning the diver that the pool wasn’t filled with water, but she didn’t want to appear too judgmental.

h/t Sacred Sandwich

Heresy Helper

Yeah...I know. It's not really a meaty "Theology Thursday" post. But I'm low on time and have surgery coming up next week. Whattayawant?

Thanks, Sacred Sandwich!

The Gospel Recovered

Cindy Jacobs (whom I blogged about yesterday) calls her latest book Reformation Manifesto (the "new apostolic movement" often sees itself in line with a new Reformation - which is why they say the older churches oppose them).

But I'm giving a shout out to the REAL Reformation the Church continually needs.



Here's to 491 years of the Gospel recovered!

And here's "the classic"

BLESSED REFORMATION DAY!!!

Exodus 32 to CBN

Self-appointed "prophet" and dubiously-doctored Cindy Jacobs recently announced on CBN that she had a vision - a word from God Almighty - that Christians needed to go to New York City and "pull down the strongman" that was blighting our economy.

The Lord further said, “October 29 was Black Tuesday, the day the stock market crashed, and Satan wants to do it again.” We must be proactive in prayer. At the beginning of the year many intercessors began to hear from the Lord that without divine intervention, a major shaking was coming to Wall Street. This would spread until there were food shortages....On September 29 last month, the US stock market went down 777 points in one day. Cindy says it was no coincidence that this happened on the first day of the Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah.

Okay... While I disagree that God Rosh Hashanah had anything to do with it (other than, maybe, the smartest financiers in NYC were at Synagogue that day), I'm cool with her asking people to pray. I pray for the nation every day - and for people caught up in this economy. Christians are to pray for the welfare of all, and especially their country and its leaders.

But I think Cindy makes some SERIOUS missteps. First, she has this charismaniac idea of territorial spirits - a larger part of a mistaken notion of Spiritual Warfare as something other than sanctification. Here's what she asked people to do:

“We are going to intercede at the site of the statue of the bull on Wall Street to ask God to begin a shift from the bull and bear markets to what we feel will be the 'Lion’s Market,' or God’s control over the economic systems,” she said. “While we do not have the full revelation of all this will entail, we do know that without intercession, economies will crumble.”

When people that claim to follow God start getting around brazen cattle, I get nervous.


Here's some video of them singing and marching around the bull.

Dancing and singing isn't enough...they even "lay hands" on the thing!



I'll bet these folks know every verse about dreaded sexual sins. I just wonder if they've ever stopped to read Exodus 32.

I'm not waiting for Moses (or Charlton Heston) to come down the mountain and toss stone tablets at them.

But the idolatry police are about to throw the book at'em!!!

This is what happens when we let orthodoxy become something we "used to do." This is what happens when we're so concerned that everyone's spiritual experience become celebrated that we refuse to be biblically discerning for fear of being "critical." We like to think it's something that only "the left" does...but there's so much of it on the right, too.

With "Christianity" like this, America deserves any and every plague God throws at us.

Learn more about Spiritual Warfare here, here, and here.

Irving Norman had the right idea...

Losing God the Father

Last Spring, a seminary friend of mine was invoking his privilege as a senior to give one sermon at the midweek chapel service. The senior sermon serves as an opportunity to share something of your faith with the community that, for two or more years, has been part of shaping that very faith. There are basic, "broad middle" sermons. Some sermons that question the person's call after 2.5 years of education. Many sermons that criticize the Bush administration. And a plethora of GLBT, Social Justice, or other standard Christian Left sermons. Fine and dandy.

But my friend was called in to the dean's office. His crime? He dared to use masculine pronouns and speak of God the Father. Apparently, inclusive language isn't meant to include half of the population.

Don't get me wrong. Inclusive language in regards to humans is a good thing (though it can make for poor writing in the hands of less-skilled writers). It's a seminary policy to use inclusive language.

But a recent Touchstone article asks, "What are we losing?"

A lot of feminist and post-modernist theologians talk about how people have felt excluded by masculine god-talk. (Which, let's be clear, is MASCULINE, but not necessarily MALE.) They want to jettison 4,000 years of linguistic reflection on the basis of 40-60 years of empowerment talk. But I don't think they've thought through all the implications. They can tell you why they don't want masculine god-talk, but have a harder time justifying the alternative they propose.

Do you know why masculine god-talk is important? Please feel free to use the comments section to elucidate. And stay tuned...the vicar is about to stir things up.

New Posters at Spurgeon.org

Here's a teaser

Here's a hint: When people say they want Jesus apart from the Bible or the apostolic witness of the historic church, they're just giving you their own time-bound ideas packaged in religious nicetude and riding on the coat-tails of "mere" Christianity.

You are what you eat

Apparently, researchers at Oxford University have found out that if you are a vegan you're more likely to become a vegetable in later life.

Of course, one look at the proto-vegetotalitarian could tell you that.



Ooh...looks like the effects are starting early for some EarthFirsters.

So what do we do with Romans 14 now?

Who Ya Gonna Call?

Does your denomination require its ministers to affirm the doctrine of the Trinity?

What difference does it make?

In a series of blog posts, I'd like to consider what is at stake when we discard orthodox theology. I hope my readers will join me in this effort to "put wheels on" our proclamation.

Was Spong Wrong?

For some reason, people are still reading John Shelby Spong. His recent article in the Washington Post is titled "Good Show, Poor Theology."

When I first read the title, I thought: "He must be talking about a rather up-the-candlestick Anglo-Catholic parish in TEC." You know the kind. Appareled amices and albs on every server. Chanted Psalms, sung gospels, and solemnities abounding. A priest that enters in cassock, surplice, hood, tippet, cope, zuchetto and biretta, then changes during the anthem into alb, amice, crossed stole, silk cincture, and chasuble. Lot's of bells, smells, bowing and wowing - but the sermon is about the latest episode of 60 Minutes or the View.

No such luck. Instead, Mr. Spong was talking about Dr. Rick Warren's forum for Obama and McCain. He went on to say this:

Homosexuality is no more a choice for gay and lesbian people than heterosexuality is a choice for straight people. It takes a while for that knowledge to trickle down to the masses. Prejudice lives only in the untrickled down gaps. The condemnation of homosexuality as a sin or as a distortion by the hierarchy of the Vatican or the leaders of evangelical Christianity is simply a sign that both groups live in the backwaters of knowledge and education. As this knowledge spreads, those groups will look like what they are - dated people similar to the members of the Flat Earth Society.

Tell you what, Spong... I'll publicly acknowledge that "homosexuality is no more a choice for gay and lesbian people than heterosexuality is a choice for straight people" if you'll publicly acknowledge that there might be a reason other ignorant prejudice for resistance to homosexual acts.